"There is nothing so stupid as the educated man if you get him off the thing he was educated in."
Will Rogers
Does anyone really need multiple graduate degrees?
I always thought it was interesting to analyze the type of people that get into medical school. A few people went to medical school because everyone in their family for the past 4 generations have been doctors. Some go becasue their parents said that they would pay for the education plus living expenses. Still others got into medical school because it was just something to do. While the vast majority of people get into medical school for the right reasons, I think it is the last group that is the most interesting.
Picture this, a smart undergraduate student, who also has considerable foresight, realizes about the end of their sophomore year of college that they are about 9 months from having to know what they want to do. Many students harness this fear to do some serious soul searching and decide upon a career choice such as going into business or becoming an accountant or teaching high school. Then there is the small but definite minority that decides to finish up their undergraduate degree and then decide on some graduate school ad hoc.
But, you might say, medical school has so many hoops that you have to jump through (MCAT, ACGME etc.) . How could someone decide to spontaneously pursue a career in medicine? I think that there are two ways that it is done. First, someone takes classes to get a Masters of Basic Medical Science (read: I couldn't get into medical school the first time I tried). Or you could have someone who takes an extra semester or two in order to squeeze in the requisite year between taking the MCAT and getting into medical school.
The long and short of it is this. A definite percentage of students in medical school are only in it for either the prestige/respect factor, or because they had nothing else to do. Which gets back to my first point: there are very few exceptions where someone could justify the need for multiple degrees.
1. MD/Ph.d: I have asked those who should know on multiple occasions why someone would want to do this. Generally, the response is some mumbled "I just don't know exactly what..." At the very least it means 10 years of combined schooling/residency, and for what? So that you'll be a better researching physician? Why not just take two years during residency and do some research, then you can develop your own goals rather than piggybacking on the work of someone else who probably isn't doing something that you're that interested in. I can almost guarantee that it would be 1000 times more valuable to do research as a resident because you would have much more freedom to do exactly what interests you and because you would have much more experience at that time. By that time you will have a much better idea of what you want to do with your medical life. I just don't get this one--maybe I'm just not smart enough to. The one benefit is that instead of paying for school you get paid ~14k for 7 years, but I wouldn't trade two less years of professional life for 28,000.
2. MD/JD: This is the only one that I can see reasonable people doing. If you want to spend the rest of your life suing doctors, you might as well get an idea as to the innerworkings of the medical machine. Seriously though, if you wanted to devote your life to the service of mankind both medically and legally, e.g. working with the poor, then this would absolutely be a noble calling.
3. MD/MPH: I'll be honest, I really know nothing about an MPH other than it stands for Masters of Public Health. But just the same, I can't imagine that you learn more about public health by sitting around in lecture halls than you would be spending the same amount of time following around those who work in public health.
4. MD/FACS I just found out that FACS stands for Fellow of the American College of Surgeons, this would actually be something I think should be strongly encouraged.
So in summary, I think that multiple graduate degrees are ridiculous and I realize that a CPA is not a graduate degree. I apologize for the rambling nature of this post--but at least I'm the only person that has to read it ;)
11 comments:
maybe some people get multiple degrees because it makes them feel whole inside. like they are more complete because they have all this knowledge and they can prove it with all the letters that come after their name... just a thought?
I think that's absolutely true.
haha i really liked ur post there.. i think ur right... btw picture this i m in medical school because i was forced by my parents. i have reached the final year now. i will do an mba after this and that would end my involvement with medicine...forever!
There are two group of people who pursue multiple degrees: 1) In it for the prestige/respect and not sure what to do with his training 2) Have "the vision" to use his specialized training for something bigger than himself/herself. The former group are extremely common and the latter are rare. This world has become monofacetic, the Renaissance Man has dissapeared, you no longer see individuals aspiring to achieve greater things by being well-rounded. That said problems in this world are becoming more complex, and it is difficult to pursue this Renaissance ideal.
A third group of people, which I believe are the rarest of all, pursue multiple degrees because they desire to learn continuously and integrate knowledge from different fields. Learning is a way a life, not an instrument to meet an endpoint such as a dream job, or reaping huge financial surpluses. This last group combined with the objective of the second group will become the true leaders of this world. They will use their education to improve lives and themselves, to break boundaries such as Da Vinci and Einstein. This world needs these rare jewels of society.
Therefore, I support this programs for those who carry vision, vocation and passion. For those who not, they only make these dual programs look bad.
I have a PhD, JD, MBA and am pursing an MD. (Including a CPA, PE, and other professional licenses). I also founded a successful startup, backpacked around the world, and raised a family.
Some people buy vacation homes. Some people go to every major league baseball stadium. Some people rebuild old cars, or play golf. I spend every day learning something new... And get degrees for my effort. I plan to do "Doctors Without Borders" with my MD.
I realize this post is from several years ago, but I'll venture to leave a comment for anyone else who may come across this post as I have.
I think your criticism of having multiple degrees stems from the misconception that having the degrees is itself the end goal for the people pursuing those degrees. I realize that there are some people who enroll in graduate programs just to have those letters come after their name. But the vast majority of people I have encountered in medical school pursue dual degrees because they have a specific purpose in mind as to how to use that extra education. In this sense, they would fall into the category a previous commentor has mentioned, the group of people who "have 'the vision' to use his [or her] specialized training for something bigger than himself/herself". Maybe I am lucky that I have run into this group of people more often than I have run into people who pursue multiple degrees just to make themselves feel good. But dual-degree programs generally ask applicants to justify their reasons for receiving additional training, and though these people may become disillusioned or change their minds in the future, I have hope that their original intentions were pure.
Also, you were kind enough to single out certain dual-degree programs to pronounce them useless. As to the medical scientist training programs (MD/PhD), your comment that a couple years of research during or after residency would be "1000 more times valuable" than "piggybacking on the work of someone else who probably isn't doing something you're interesting" is true. However, if someone received a PhD in the above manner, then that person certainly did not go about doing it in the correct fashion. (Perhaps you are projecting your own experiences with research in medical school?) Receiving a PhD in the basic sciences entails developing the critical and analytical skills necessary to lead rigorous, hypothesis-driven research, as well as presenting and defending your own independent thesis that has been developed for 4-6 years on average. You most certainly do not receive this kind of training by doing clinical research (which is entirely different from basic science research) as a resident, and, excluding the luckiest of cases, two years in a research lab will yield no significant contributions to the world of science. In this sense, for those who truly wish to make an impact in the biomedical sciences, receiving the basic science training that would come from completing a PhD thesis is more valuable than doing a research year or two during residency. (Of course, the PhD is far from necessary to do excellent research in medical science. Many MD scientists receive equivalent amounts of training before embarking on their scientific careers through other methods, but for the most part, all of them spend similar amounts of additional time, i.e. 4-6 years, to build their experience.)
The other program you criticized was the MD/MPH dual degree option. Again, you made a comparison. "Following around those who work in public health" may be better than "sitting around in lecture halls" with regard to learning about public health. But would you make the same argument that following around those who work in medicine is better than going to medical school for becoming a doctor? Some people like structure to their education, and MPH programs offer this, especially to those who aren't lucky to be born with an intimate understanding of biostatistics and epidemiology.
I realize that this is a blog and that this post was made in a very casual manner. Despite its length, this comment was also made very casually, and I have no delusions that this comment will ever even be read, but I felt your post merited response, just in case anyone chances upon this post.
Sincerely,
Anonymous
P.S. Coincidentally, this is my first comment on the Internet!
You know this post has got me thinking and so has all the comments as well. I agree that more often than not people do pursue multiple degrees in order to prove themselves and yes maybe because they have nothing better to do. Now this is spanning from my own experience and opinion...some of them are just overachievers and like one of the above commenters said a very small minority are trying to look at the big picture of things and create something better now this may seem silly but I myself have an interest in pursuing my M.D, J.D, P.hD, MBA, CPA and two Bachelor degrees only because I would like to concurrently use each one for the greater good and not to mention I simply love learning.
By the way, I am proud that I earned an MD, DO and an MBA degrees. Now I am pursuing my MPH degree. Unfortunately, non-achievers are the only ones who usually ridicule others who worked hard and earned multiple degrees. When I am talking about non-achievers, I mean those who were not able to complete a bachelor degree and some of them didn't even complete their high school diploma,
FACS isn't a degree, it signifies membership in an organization.
In some places, the coroner has to be an MD/JD; and an executive MBA probably wouldn't hurt an MD who was promoted to hospital manager.
Two years of research in residency isn't going to make you a scientist. It's a nice start.
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